788 replies to this topic

[Macman]

That block-party barbeque was a great idea, TL. I just told, Angel about it. Next time (and I'm sure there will be one), we'll be prepared.

We just got back from Cebu. It was a long day, and I'm really beat. I need to hit the sack. but tomorrow I want to tell about one of my most frustrating Philippine experiences to date.

Macman

[Macman]

Okay, here's my tale of woe. Since I was planning to buy a car for 370,000 PHP (about $8,800 US), I transferred money into my Citibank checking account in New York. Angel and I went to Cebu, the nearest Citibank office. Please keep in mind that I've been a Citibank customer almost my whole adult life, and also worked there after retiring from my Wall Street firm. I worked there long enough to get a small pension from them. So - long-time customer and retired employee. I explained to the officer that I needed to get the money from my NY account and needed a Certified or manager's check. The answer - "First of all, we don't have access to your money, so you'll have to use the ATM machine." Some quick calculations on her part and then, "You'll need to make 24 separate withdrawals of $15,000 PHP each. However, since you're normally limited to $1,000 withdrawal-per-day, we'll need to get permission from NY to take out that much." "Okay, but when I get this, can I then get some kind of a check?" "No, you can't." "Are you telling me that I have to walk around Cebu for the rest of the day with $9,000 in my pocket after having spent almost an hour at an ATM, obvious to anyone that I'm withdrawing a large sum of money." "Yes. Sorry." (By the way, even if they would waive the ATM fee, there would still be a "foreign transaction fee" for each transaction, charged by my NY bank.) So she called Citibank HQ's. After some chat, the representative said, "We can't allow that much withdrawal from an ATM in one day, but we'll approve $6,000." So that meant that I would have to make 16 withdrawals yesterday, return to Cebu today, and make 8 more withdrawals, all the time having this cash on me or hidden in the apartment. It's a 5-hour round trip to Cebu, and that's just the ferry part of the journey. I told NY to forget about it. I then asked the woman if I could open a Philippine account in my name, and write a check from my NY account for deposit. "Do you have an ACR card?" "No, because they screwed that up in Tacloban, and it'll be another 3 weeks.'' "Sorry. Oh, and by the way, we require a 100,000 PHP minimum deposit and balance." "But I'm a retired employee with an active account with Citibank. Because of that, I have free checking and no minimum balance." "Sorry. And, oh, if you do open an account here, it will take 25 banking days for your check to clear." The year 2011 - a check from Citibank to Citibank - 25 f%#$&*g banking days to f%#$&*g clear.

I will most likely lose out on the AUV (Asian Utility Vehicle) I was going to buy. I can't ask the guy to wait a month for his money. You know what? I don't even blame The Philippines. I blame Citi. It's been a piece of crap from the day Sandy Weill took over until now.

Thanks, guys. I needed to rant and rave.

Macman

[viking675]

May be a thought ... why you do not go to western union online and use your american CITI bank account and wire 8000 US dollars to your own name and go to a western union office and collect the cash ?

i am not sure if that will work but might be worthwhile checking out. You need to pay a fee but at least you have the money ...

Must say i really like your thread and wish you all the best

[Legend]

nice rant mac,
i do enjoy these tales of real life situations.
nothing is straightforward in england either.
everything requires 4 phone calls to correct others mistakes.
thanks for the update.

[Macman]

Thanks, Ant, and you're welcome.

That's not a bad idea, Viking. I have an account at Western Union too. Well, before I read your post, I went to the Bank of Commerce (Philippines). I had opened a dollar account there about 4 weeks ago. I opened a peso account today, and I also deposited a $10,000 check into the dollar account, which will transfer to the other account when it clears. It'll take up to 21 banking days, but at least I'll have it there for the next time. I contacted the owner of the vehicle, and he said that I'll be given priority if the AUV is still unsold when my check clears. I'll just leave it up to the gods now.

I want to make a couple of corrections. First, I overestimated the fire power of the security guards here. What I thought were sub-machine guns are actually 12-gauge shotguns (strange-looking ones). The other correction is the spelling of the town that I think sounds so Celtic. It's Tagbilaran.

Macman

[thailover57]

Mac, Western Union is expensive. Check out Xoom.com. In my horny state for a month, I was chatting with a lovely online and sent her some money through xoom. Much cheaper than WU. Thank goodness it was only a small amount. Alcohol can do so many bad things to the mind!

Love your rant and this thread.

[Surin Nix]

Mac, Western Union is expensive. Check out Xoom.com. In my horny state for a month, I was chatting with a lovely online and sent her some money through xoom. Much cheaper than WU. Thank goodness it was only a small amount. Alcohol can do so many bad things to the mind!

Love your rant and this thread.

No worries TL. We've all been there!

[Macman]

Thanks, TL. I'm just going to work it out with the Bank of Commerce. They allowed me to open the account last month without an ACR card. I now have a dollar account and a peso account with them, and I'll just do most of my banking through them.

Macman

[pacman]

Interesting to read about your problem with Citibank. Given what I hear about Citi, I would rather have your problem than theirs. If it wasn't for the Fed keeping them liquid, they would go the way of Lehman Brothers. So I hear...

[Rossco]

Understand your frustration


I bought a car here in Thailand and wanted to take some credit plan.
I need to show 800,000 Baht in my bank every year just to renew my retirement visa.
As a foreigner I cannot borrow money without a Thai person acting as guarantor.
My Insurance agent earns 15,000 per month and acted as my guarantor.
The monthly payment is 14,000

Go figure......


I have had an 'Off Shore' bank account for well over 10 years with an International Bank in the UK.

Here are some recent developments:

Sorry sir we cannot send your new ATM card in the post due to fraud.
Ok just beam it up to me or better still I will fly to your bank - will you pay the fare?

Due to streamlining we have set a limit of a minimum balance of 10,000 GBP for you to have a nominated advisor
So who do I speak to no?
Sorry sir you do not have a nominated account advisor.

Due to changes in interest rates we are no longer paying interest on current accounts.
But you require 10,000 deposit to have an advisor.

We are introducing a new Card Reader system to provide you with more security when using our On Line banking service.
But I do not have a card reader.
We will send one to your statement address
You cannot because my statements go to my advisor - well they used to because you will not send out statements abroad
Oh I see - well I will make an exception.

Card reader arrives. I go on line. It does not work. I Telephone the Help Line

Sorry sir where are you trying to use this from?
Thailand
Sorry sir this service can only be used in the UK

But I am trying to transfer money from my GBP account to Thailand so I can live.
Sir you will have to speak to your advisor.
I do not have an advisor
Sorry sir - Thankyou for using xxxx International bank help line today.

So I think OK, I will send a check to a friend in the UK.
He can deposit the check into his account and transfer funds to me.
Interesting that banks no longer guarantee checks - even up to only 100 GBP - as they used to.

So banks have lost the plot. I rang the bank and said:
"What is the name of the bank?"
"Would it be fair to assume that, as you are xxx International Bank, that many of your clients will not live in the UK?"

The last thing the bank sent me was......

A Customer Satisfaction Survey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Banks have asked for public bail out money.
They have reduced their services,
They have increased charges,
They have complicated the simple system of local branch banking
AND they report huge profits
AND they pay obscene bonuses

Money does not just disappear - someone's loss is someone's gain

Think about what I have just done - I sent a cheque, via insecure post, to a friend,
He banks it and transfers me my money.
So what does a bank do? Nothing.

I can see a John Cleese type sketch with him as the Bank Manager.

Yes how may I help you

I wish to transfer some money

Yeeess - now let me see. Ah, yes - do you bank here?
Yes

Do you have a cardreader
Yes

Do you have an ATM card
Yes

Do you have an advisor
Not now,

Ahhhh - there is the problem

But I am a customer

Ah ha - now I understand. Well you see we did away with customers last year.
Far too many problems and frightfully frustrating.
Very irritating and caused a huge amount of stress to our staff - we had to introduce stress counselling
Always wanting to put money in, take it out, move it around - we were worked senseless.
Then there was all that due diligence stuff and money laundering - why anyone would want to wash money anyway.

Now can I interest you in some US or European bonds - we get great commission on those and provide absolutely no guarantee.
Ideal for retirement planning.

[mardhi]

Understand your frustration


I bought a car here in Thailand and wanted to take some credit plan.
I need to show 800,000 Baht in my bank every year just to renew my retirement visa.
As a foreigner I cannot borrow money without a Thai person acting as guarantor.
My Insurance agent earns 15,000 per month and acted as my guarantor.
The monthly payment is 14,000

Go figure......


I have had an 'Off Shore' bank account for well over 10 years with an International Bank in the UK.

Here are some recent developments:

Sorry sir we cannot send your new ATM card in the post due to fraud.
Ok just beam it up to me or better still I will fly to your bank - will you pay the fare?

Due to streamlining we have set a limit of a minimum balance of 10,000 GBP for you to have a nominated advisor
So who do I speak to no?
Sorry sir you do not have a nominated account advisor.

Due to changes in interest rates we are no longer paying interest on current accounts.
But you require 10,000 deposit to have an advisor.

We are introducing a new Card Reader system to provide you with more security when using our On Line banking service.
But I do not have a card reader.
We will send one to your statement address
You cannot because my statements go to my advisor - well they used to because you will not send out statements abroad
Oh I see - well I will make an exception.

Card reader arrives. I go on line. It does not work. I Telephone the Help Line

Sorry sir where are you trying to use this from?
Thailand
Sorry sir this service can only be used in the UK

But I am trying to transfer money from my GBP account to Thailand so I can live.
Sir you will have to speak to your advisor.
I do not have an advisor
Sorry sir - Thankyou for using xxxx International bank help line today.

So I think OK, I will send a check to a friend in the UK.
He can deposit the check into his account and transfer funds to me.
Interesting that banks no longer guarantee checks - even up to only 100 GBP - as they used to.

So banks have lost the plot. I rang the bank and said:
"What is the name of the bank?"
"Would it be fair to assume that, as you are xxx International Bank, that many of your clients will not live in the UK?"

The last thing the bank sent me was......

A Customer Satisfaction Survey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Banks have asked for public bail out money.
They have reduced their services,
They have increased charges,
They have complicated the simple system of local branch banking
AND they report huge profits
AND they pay obscene bonuses

Money does not just disappear - someone's loss is someone's gain

Think about what I have just done - I sent a cheque, via insecure post, to a friend,
He banks it and transfers me my money.
So what does a bank do? Nothing.

I can see a John Cleese type sketch with him as the Bank Manager.

Yes how may I help you

I wish to transfer some money

Yeeess - now let me see. Ah, yes - do you bank here?
Yes

Do you have a cardreader
Yes

Do you have an ATM card
Yes

Do you have an advisor
Not now,

Ahhhh - there is the problem

But I am a customer

Ah ha - now I understand. Well you see we did away with customers last year.
Far too many problems and frightfully frustrating.
Very irritating and caused a huge amount of stress to our staff - we had to introduce stress counselling
Always wanting to put money in, take it out, move it around - we were worked senseless.
Then there was all that due diligence stuff and money laundering - why anyone would want to wash money anyway.

Now can I interest you in some US or European bonds - we get great commission on those and provide absolutely no guarantee.
Ideal for retirement planning.

Hysterical - and sadly so accurate, however the cunning banks have people over a barrel certainly in the Western world. I do recall we had a similar conversation over dinner one night and I still cannot get my head round why nobody just sets up a simple bank, doing what a bank should do. Take money in at X% interest and then lend it out on XX% interest.

Although to want2Cts point - the simple reality is that banks are some of the most localised operating businesses I have ever come across - they just don't get or understand that there are other countries over the border.

[Macman]

Rossco, that was priceless. I love John Cleese, so I can picture that scene vividly. Mardhi relates to this stuff so easily, as I'm sure do many of the BMs, so it's probably an international problem, just magnified a bit in places like LOS and P.I.

Mardhi, that simple setup exists now with banks, but it is taking in money at x% and lending it out at xxxxxxxxxxxxx%.

Pacman, I understand Citi is doing fairly well now, as is General Motors. Oh, yes, GM stock is fine now after they defaulted on the preferred stock shares that I owned. As for Citi and the rest of the banks, they get money at zero interest from the Fed and pay out 1/4 of 1% on savings accounts and 1% (if you're lucky) on CDs. The rates they charge for credit card debt approached 30%, a usurious rate for which organized crime guys went to jail. I'm being forced to take more and more risk in my retirement account in order to generate even a modest income, something with which I'm not comfortable.

Fortunately, my connection at Commerce bank has really come through for me. I now have a US$ account, a PHP account, and an ATM card with them. The officer told me today that she's going to do everything she can to speed up the clearance for my check that will pay for the car.

Rossco, you mentioned that you need to show a balance of 800,000 baht in your account. That's over $27,000 U.S. I haven't applied for retirement status here yet because Angel and I agreed that we would give this a try for one year, and then make a decision as to whether or not we want to make it permanent. If we do, I am only required to keep $10,000 U.S. in a time deposit here, and I can do it with Commerce Bank. They'll pay interest on it monthly, at some very low rate I'm sure, but probably more than I could get in the States.

Macman