283 replies to this topic

[BigPenisMaiPenRai]

However, for fans of conspiracy theories, it could be suggested that:
1./ Some months ago, when it was first reported that Stogie was stepping down at TLF and others were taking over, was in fact just a rouse to distance himself from the impending VIP paid-for area.
2./ All the discussions about heroes, picture postings and paying off ladyboys who don't want their pictures posted was to sow the seed for the impending paid-for VIP area as having a pro-active purpose, other than just being a money-maker.

There's probably others if I was willing to invest the time thinking of them ...

Anyway, I'm happy where I am now
... and it's FREE!

If you read the forums close like I used to you see that Stogie is obviously Bumper Sticker, Rusty Nail, Mr. Grumpy, Biciyle PUmp etc. He even posted a thread as Bumper where he talked about the night he met Olay and then his butt-boy Kahoona said it was good seeing him at Guess Bar at the Admins meeting, called him STOGIE by name in the thread!

They arent even really trying to make it look like Stogie sold it they think were that stupid.

[Ladyboy Lust]

Hello

I can only agree. This whole heroes stuff is fabricated. In September Stogie goes into retire. Then a group of famous members gets bothered by angry ladyboys or receive weird messages in their mailbox.

A few examples. The famous Ernesto on TLF gets bad e mails of angry lb's from Phuket. He is concerned and starts a thread. On this forum alarming reports for example by bullseye. See his encounter with an upset Gus. Boarhog who gets in trouble with a fellow called paradise juggler. Stevie P who deletes everything and keeps a low profile.
Juri on TLF who suddenly removes his photo's and gives a very confusing statement why he did it.

Now any ladyboy working in the business knows there is a risk someone will put a nudie in his trip report. This is going on for a long time. Yes and I must thank Kliome for giving advice to be on the safe side. I think most members will respect certain rules. Not that I object in posting nudies. No I love to see them. And if a ladyboy objects I personally would never post.

Also most members are aware that ladyboys know about these websites. I'm convinced only a few can fully read and understand all the posts. Most lb's have poor skills in really understanding. There lies the danger when someone smarter shows them nudies and makes up a horror story. Like for example your boyfriend now knows.
Ask yourself what persons would benefit from that kind of action. An angry sponsor ? Well I doubt it. When he finds out he will stop sponsoring and get wise. Maybe curse and forget about the ladyboys. Sponsors have been around for a long time too. But a smart ass showing a ladyboy trip reports with his "translation" is new.

So what other option? Perhaps a retired internet owner desperate in need of money to maintain his current life style. He creates panic and on the other hand offers security. He has the contacts and some of his gang members won't stop at nothing.

Read TLF and you'll find somewhere that the heroes problem will be dealt with later. King Stogie deal with what? Sponsors? Is he going to shoot them or intimidate them . BS!!!
Stogie waits until he has enough sheep lured into VIP membership.

He might dream he is Keyser Soze but in fact he ain't that stupid to actually become one. Stogie is more like sneaky Pete or tricky Dick. Further it is easy to end a 90% created hoax. There the damage control was perfect. What was removed on TLF? Perhaps a few old trip reports or unsuitable material delivered by dissidents. Nothing substantial. The whole Ernesto stuff transferred to the VIP section. No delete there.

Or some lb69 members ( who never post on TLF) became a target. Why sends a shadow figure like Woof a pm to Bullseye Maco. They have never met still bullseye gets this fucked up message. Later the trouble with Gus starts for him. Coincidence or a target. We all know ( without getting in a us to them fight) that TLF people read lb69. Bulls eye writes excellent reports and did this in a short time. Perhaps like Ernesto but far more better. A perfect target or not?
He got quite a fanclub in a short time. Perfect for this or not?

I might have gotten in a similar situation ( without revealing too much now) by some alarming sms I received by an envious lb. Sad for TLF I was not in BKK then. Left earlier than this lb knew. This also happened in September.

That pissed me off. I got the message because this lb is one of the few who knew about my problem with rxpharm and stogie. Lucky she has no idea about my real identity but since then it got me thinking. Only she is envious and someone must have told her BS too.

So rxpharm why you keep ignoring my messages. I do know the person who delivered the wrong information but first you need to realize what your part was. What problems you caused for the wrong person. Normally you are so keen in answering. Now you stopped. Why?

I hold no grudge against you only wake up and see what you have done. Your whole reputation is going to pieces.

I understand the reason behind TLF's change - some people showing photos/trip reports to those LBs featured in the report. This lead to the BM requesting removal of their trip report - what would a Forum be without Trip Reports.

There was a big debate, over on TLF, on how to resolve the issue and the outcome was a 'Pay for view' VIP Forum.

I agree that an annual subscription will deter the 'casual' user and probably most of the LB community - they will not pay 50 Bucks for access. Will it stop those people showing LBs the reports/photos - probably not BUT it will become more transparent which BM is doing so as the number of 'Paid Up' members will be smaller.

Rosco, this is bullshit and you know better. The whole idea of restricting the trip reports to "protect" the posters was cooked up by Stogies too put money in his pocket and has nought to do with keeping ladyboys from seeing there pics in trip reports. Plenty of board members objected and had great arguments against this idea and you and the other admins pushed it through or deleted there comments to make it look like everyone thought it were good idea.

This is just greedy Stogie finding one more way to be a jerk to the members and thinking where stupid nuff to happilly pay for the privlige.

[deepthroat69]

I guess you can add me to the list of disgruntled former TLF posters as well. I won't go into the details or engage in the conspiracy stuff. BS or Stogie or whomever he is can charge for his site if that's what he wants to do, it is his site after all, but I'm bummed that I put a ton of time and energy into creating what I thought were comments and threads of value, only to find that he didn't think my contribution warranted a VIP membership.

So rather than bitch and whine any more about TLF, it's a moot issue for me. I'll put my energy into something positive, like posting about HOT LADYBOYS on this forum.

Boarthog, I'd encourage you to start channeling your energy into positive NEW stuff soon because all your negative energy will eat you up. It's like drinking poison and then waiting for the other guy to get sick! I hope you understand my comments.... let it go and put your energy into making this site the best one in the world.

That's my 2 cents.

Looking forward to my next trip, 2 weeks now before wheels up!!!!!

[dixon cox]

the pics are better on other forum since this new auto resizer thingy to.

True.

But like many new changes a little fine-tuning is required, hopefully these will be implemented soon.

[Ladyboy Lust]

Hello

Quite true. TLF is Stogie's site and he can charge whatever he likes. He even can kick out members for whatever reason. Or send childish threats. Only when he starts going further which happened in several cases should we simply forget or accept?

I mean there is a difference between messages it would be better not to come to Bkk or in fact posting real names and backgrounds on TLF. Or sent angry lb's who like to rebuild a person.

I do agree that if you get involved too much negative energy can eat a person up. Only if you block yourself getting emotionally attached which I do this never happens. I can't speak for other members but reading Boarhogs posts I think he is doing pretty much the same.

Like you I hope there comes an end. In your cases you didn't obtain VIP membership. I have other reasons where the Stogie gang forces me to act like this.

I rather prefer another solution only I don't accept being harassed physically because of a character called Stogie. This happened almost on two occasions in 2009. I won't go into details right now only there the fun ends for me.

Anyway I hope you have a good trip. Please enjoy.

I guess you can add me to the list of disgruntled former TLF posters as well. I won't go into the details or engage in the conspiracy stuff, other than say that it seems like the reasons for the membership fees are obviously not about trying to protect the security of the pictures. That's ludicrous. BS or Stogie or whomever he is can charge for his site if that's what he wants to do, it is his site after all, but I'm bummed that I put a ton of time and energy into creating what I thought were comments and threads of value, only to find that he didn't think my contribution warranted a VIP membership.

So rather than bitch and whine any more about TLF, it's a moot issue for me. I'll put my energy into something positive, like posting about HOT LADYBOYS on this forum.

Boarthog, I appreciate the energy and information you've put into this. It's nice to see that other folks are even more disappointed with the decisions made on the other board than I am. But I'd encourage you to start channeling your energy into positive NEW stuff soon, otherwise Stogie wins because all your negative energy will eat you up. It's like drinking poison and then waiting for the other guy to get sick! I hope you understand my comments.... I think you've done an amazing job of getting the truth out there. And now that you have and it's there for the world to see, let it go and put your energy into making this site the best one in the world.

That's my 2 cents.

Looking forward to my next trip, 2 weeks now before wheels up!!!!!

[kliome]

To be honest, this is all getting a little boring now.

True!

If you guys want this thread to continue, lets allow other people to contribute rather than hearing from the same 3 or 4 people over and over.. And by that I mean other people - not other aliases.

[bkklover]

What happens when Rami sees His forum as being a cash cow too and implements a charge here too?

Never forget these are owned by a corporation that has to produce a profit...

The models are changing.

[pacman]

Thank you Kliome for clearing the way so I feel safe to post another opinion about the Great Experiment.

I have been following this thread for days but the level of antagonism, the half truths, the efforts to make this out to be Them versus Us, it all left me bewildered. And not a thread I felt like buying into knowing that I would be attacked for not joining in with the TLF bashing.

I have met many of the players on both forums & I am happy to be counted amongst their number. Fine chaps & though I don't claim them all as best buddies, there is not one I would wish harm upon.

The absurd notion suggested on this thread that the LB69 crew are good guys & those evil fuckers over on TLF should all burn in hell is just utter nonsense. I simply ask 2 things - do you REALLY believe that? & explain the metamorphis that takes place when they go from one forum to the other.

The personal attacks on Stogie are enlightening. Let me state for the record I am not one of his stooges, I have my own history with him but that is all water under the bridge as far as I am concerned. I believe that some of the "old guard" who have been on the forum forever & are all part of the inner sanctum don't exactly help promote a warm & fuzzy image to any new members. Scare them half to death in my opinion but that usually only happens when the newbies are asking naive questions within 10 minutes of joining.

As far as Stogie's evilness is concerned, how do you account for all the moderators & long term members who would go to almost any length to help him? In my life, I have noticed that nasty cunts do not attract that level of support.

But I am not his apologist & I have no doubt that the problems raised by Jokerman & others are real & were distressing. I know that there were late night decisions made that were not in the best interest of TLF or Stogie. There have been some good guys leave in unfortunate circumstances but as the old saying goes - you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

I have been surprised by the level of "brittleness" shown by many who have spoken out about this $50 impost as if it was going to lead them into poverty. Yes, I know it is a question of principle but there is always the other side to the coin. I have taken pity on a girl with money problems & tipped her generously but I have never thought to do that for Stogie. After all, he's a farang living in LOS, he must be rich.

Except he's not but who wants to sound like they are soliciting for donations on their own forum? After years of being ignored by the 2 week millionaires who flaunt their cash around the bars, then boast about it, he must feel some measure of justice now he can put a commercial value on his property.

I am heartened by the references made by several posters that they understand why the move was made. It is even simpler than that - either the forum generates some income or it has to close. And what does that achieve? All that information, lost!!

The other forums may feel they have won some mythical competition but I believe the LB world will be a much poorer place. As for the conspiracy theories that BMs were deliberately sabotaged in order to justify these events, I would be dumbfounded if conclusive proof could be provided to back up such claims.

The reasons IMO neatly came together. There was a REAL problem with BMs showing pictures to the girls plus the smart girls read the forum in order to "mine" it for incriminating pictures that they could then use against the poster in confected rage in order to extort money from them. I have only read about the BMs culpability, I know of several attacks by the girls themselves. And of course, if asked how did they find the pics, they are going to blame a farang. They don't want their secret known.

And I notice that no one has mentioned the newly formed cyber crime division of the Thai Police Force. It was started ostensibly to watch for "culturally inappropriate" photos (it is a criminal offence to post pictures of any Thai in any way that may reflect badly on Thailand) plus to monitor the web for paedophilia, for farangs working in Thailand to make a living (another serious offence if you don't have the right visa & pay tax, etc), & other crimes.

Now with the downturn in tourism came a drop-off in the daily scams that passes for normal police work so it was inevitable they looked to the net for ways to make up their shortfall. I have no exact knowledge but I will wager my left testicle that these cyber cops are connected with the removal of the "Donate" button on TLF.

Once that had to go, the rest is history. Of course I expect to have my post scrutinised & dissected by the angry guys here who don't want anything to upset their view this is all about good versus evil.

I hope the calm ones amongst you pause to reflect on just how does one make a living from a website, the question of who pays for content on the web has only started but don't think TLF is alone with this issue.

As for Stogie, if he has deeply offended you in the past, fine, leave TLF to its own devices but for the new guys here or those who have never met him, don't believe all the slanderous allegations that have been levelled here. Some of it no doubt, no smoke without fire but there is no way he would have seen out the past 7 years with the following he has had half this stuff been true. And I say that as someone who isn't on his Xmas card list but have a grudging respect for someone who is trying to survive the best he can.

It is a debate about $50 here fellas, you can spin it how you want but I don't see how it could ever justify the level of hatred I read here. You can pay it or refuse to pay it, it's your call but I won't accept the idea that it will serve the LB community any good at all for TLF to close.

[dixon cox]

I ...

A heart-warming post pacman

But unfortunately, despite many words, you did not once cover the crux of the matter and viewed it only from an unaffected insider's stand-point. Plus, the financial aspect is hardly an issue (except for the payee) and anyway, the wind blew out of that argument long ago.

Had the paid-for section been created from scratch (empty) and all forum members with 'worthy' content asked or were offered to have their trip reports or picture threads or whatever moved into the paid-for section it would have been a different kettle-of-fish, rather than retrospectively removing threads (by request) and only for those who 'asked nicely'. Those who were then happy to be moved in would then be encouraged or already be looking forward to adding more juicy content that they were otherwise reluctant to post initially, for whatever reason. This would then add to the sale-ability of the paid-for area and there would be little or no conflict.

The fact that some have struggled, or are still struggling, to get their threads (intended for free-to-all viewing) removed from the paid-for area, or their posts deleted entirely, is what appears to be the cause of most of the distress.

For those others who have been banned, blocked or otherwise ignored it has become a very frustrating scenario. Although some poster's texts may appear over-zealous, the message is a clear one and should be honoured without exception.

For the vast majority of BMs it is not a people thing and I, for one, am not directly affected by the change. So for those of us who have friends here & there will just get over it and get on with it.

[deepthroat69]

Great post Pacman, it's wonderful to see your avatar here.

What's that saying? "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a woman scorned" or something like that? Well, count me amongst the scorned. I'll be the first to raise my hand and admit that much of my anger is about being "rejected" and told in monetary terms that my contribution didn't measure up.

I can't agree with everything you've said, especially in regards to TLF's financing and the "need" to charge, but I certainly will attest to the fact that you are not one of Stogie's stooges, as evidenced by the treatment you get from some of the more difficult moderators on TLF. So anyone reading this (or deciding to do the "point/counterpoint" rebuttal that I expect it may elicit) should know that going in and if there's to be any attack, it should be on the facts and NOT Mr. Pacman's character.

I really appreciate your intelligent, well-reasoned post, which brings up many points to ponder.

Wish I saw more of you around these parts sir.

[ozzie]

It is not my job or anyone else on these forums to finance Stogies stay in Thailand.

Most sites that charge for content do so because their content is ORIGINAL and so cannot be found anywhere else.

Given the majority of what is on TLF can be found on this forum and others why would someone pay for the privilege?

Of course Stogie is entitled to make his site subscription but charging for other peoples content is both immoral and unethical.

As many have said he should have started from scratch with the VIP part of the forum and left all the existing content as free.

People will vote with their feet and once the dust has settled we will see whether or not it was a successful move.