42 replies to this topic

[bubba]

There's a lot of fucked up stuff here in Thailand. Don't get the idea that all is swell and good because you can fly in, have a good time, and fly out and everyone smiled the whole time. I live here, and I can tell you a lot of the shine wears off pretty quickly.

It's not just the military government, the religious movement is very strong here (Buddhists). So, the "moral" move was on before the military took over. The Buddhists are pressuring the government to crack down more and more on alcohol use and sale, and there's no telling if they'll take their battle elsewhere. I would venture to say that, like in most countries, the legislators are more wiling to tackle an issue like alcohol rather than try to really do something substantive and improve the people's quality of life.
The latest move on alcohol is to ban all advertising, including the beer girls at many restaurants (though they're still there, the name of the beer is not supposed to be on the dress). Also, you can't buy alcohol in a supermarket from 2-5pm. I thought there was supposed to be a similar ban in regards to bars and restaurants, but not sure about that (obviously it's not being enforced in the nana area!). Anyway, be careful what you do here and you'll be fine. But don't think you'll be treated nicely if you run afoul of the law.
One other issue, most of you know the position the king holds in Thai society. A swiss living in Chiang Mai, had been here 10 years, got drunk and spray painted over several public portraits of the king. He just got ten years in prison for this. He may have been better off being lynched on the spot than having to do ten years in a Thai prison.

[kliome]

I remember when an mentally handicapped guy smashed up one of the Buddah statues near Patpong. Literally everyone who saw him do it jumped on him and they all publically beat him to death. Even the police did nothing, they just took away the dead body and no one was charged,

When I heard about this I noted to one Thai that I thought it was sad because he probably had no real concept of what he was doing. She look at my like I'd shat in her face, and said she would have helped them beat the life out of the poor guy.

Don't be scared by the story, but even if you don't share their undying admiration for the King and Buddhist icons, you need to be aware of this and show resepct, or at least keep you mouth shut and save your opions for the poor guy next to you on the flight home.

[bkklover]

BTW - The swiss guy just got a pardon from the Kingand is on his way home

[Rossco]

I had often thought about posting on this topic.

I have met some of you and have aired my views directly. This is all general information and not specifically applied to the LB scene but worth noting. I hope it helps those coming on holiday as well as those considering living here. I do have some financial planning info for those serious about moving here.

As a rough guide 10 million Baht to buy, move in to house/Condo get comfortable and buy decent set of wheels. Living costs later.

A few rules following member report from Bangkok I think.

Respect the King - including all images and that includes banknotes - if you desecrate a bank note you desecrate the King

Respect all Temples and Icons/Images - 2 reasons. Thai way and second you look like an ignorant asshole if you do not.

Respect ALL people. This is common sense but if you behave in the way that we can in the West you are a "buffalo" - I know many guys where all the ladies smile at them but none will go with him because he has proven himself to be one dumb, stupid, loud mouthed buffalo. You should hear soe of the conversations the girls have - they do not choose their words carefully. So you get drunk and act like an asshole - you may find your card marked.
This really applies to the main GG circuit but Lb's the same.

Never get into a agressive arguement. I saw a drunk UK guy in BKK trying to intimidate the bouncer at a club. The next thing is a knuckle duster appeared on the bouncers hand and 4 other Thais showed up. The guy was just sober enough to realise he was outplayed. The Thais smile a lot but when agitated take care. You argue with one and many appear out of the darkness. (LB's are the same). If you freelance you take a risk - Franck of 131 and Bob of Stringfellows have reputable staff.

Police - not same as the West. Everyone on the take and NEVER confront. You want to play and you are going to pay big time. No bail and no legal aid. I got stopped 4th Jan for going too fast (having just been overtaken by numerous bedhouin taxis) - Police guy said (literally) "Happy New Year Farang - 200 baht" I could not refuse.

Life is cheap here - for 5000 baht you can get someone "hit" - I mean it. Many stories of Farang upsetting Thai girlfriend or whatever - next thing he is dead or in hospital. They take revenge seriously.

Do not get "involved" unless you mean to - they take relationships seriously after only a short courtship. They then demand unyielding loyalty which they also give in return.

Holiday vs Resident. They love paperwork here and as a foreigner there are many restrictions that you never know about. Buying property. Thais do not trust lawyers - there is no law society to escalate problems/wrongdoings. There is a lot of BS advice.

Living cost. When you come her on vacation you have big bucks - say 3000 quid for a month - that is 210,000 baht. Average wage in Thailand for Thais is 5000 baht. A teacher will start at 6000 baht a month. Girl in restaurant or factory will do 7 days a week for 150 baht per day plus tips etc SO YOUR 210,000 is like monoploy money.

You really need to think in Baht and in their economic terms. Think in relative terms - your 5,000 baht is one months income. A lady drink is equivalent to one factory workers day's pay. Thais eat for 50 baht or less a day. Your meal at a restaurant is say 500 baht - three days pay. Get the idea - pricing/cost is a relative thing - you should try to think in local terms. So your 1000/1500 baht for long time is one weeks pay - that is why the sex industry is so bouyant NOT because you are so good looking!!

Most people working Pattaya do legitimately send money home - many families are dependent on their offspring working Pattaya. I know one lady has 2 kids 14 and 15 in her town. They live in a small house, on their own, while mom works 3 month stints in Pattaya. So, many of them have a genuine need for your money.

When resident here it is unlikely you will work - so can you afford the 3000 quid a month holiday budget money to retire here - probably not. Good news is that you can live here on 50,000/75,000 baht a month comfortably BUT you will not be able to butterfly nightly!

Try not to butterfly in the same bar - they do not like it. Again you will get all smiles BUT that is on the outside. Inside they lose face and that is a big no here - shame the principle does not exist in the West - society might be a bit more pleasant than currently.

When you live here you are always a "guest to the kingdom of Thailand" you have no rights and can be asked to leave at anytime.

Finally - Prostitution is illegal. Always pay the BF and deal separately for other service - the BF is to take the person from place of work - comp the bar.

Try and agree everything in advance ST/LT and cost. They always ask for Taxi fare as extra but up to you. If you agree everything in advance OK - if not you may find you have a little spitfire to deal with. Never pay in advance and my book says do not BF in advance and say I will come back later/tomorrow. If she get another offer she will take it - I know not everyone but as a general rule "pay as you go"

Now saying prostitution is illegal is amusing BECAUSE so are all Mobile food carts!!

The authorities have a dilemma. There are 85,000 ladies working Pattaya. No one pays tax. What would happen if they overnight cleaned up the sex trade. 85,000 people out of work - add in hotels, restaurants, shops etc and Pattaya would implode. Police would not gte their monthly pay outs and and and....

So Thailand is full of inconsistencies - just smile back and enjoy the trip and keep the emotions under control and respect everyone and everthing that way you have a great time.

[patrick]

Excellent post Rossco, some astute observations and common sense advice.
As you may know from reading Franck's diary I have recently engaged a hit man to deal with some so called (ex) friends (they done me wrong), ploblem is, even with bulk discount I'm still paying a lot more than 5000bht p/head. If you can find a cheaper contact I'd be willing to split the difference.

[rsraleigh]

Good advice from you guys ... I am moving to BKK in July ... to work for my Company there...

I fully agree with the concept of thinking on thai money... when i did it last month a few days i felt bad about ht splash-out of money i was doing but ... when the night comes... your desires point you to Nana ...

I also have noticed the rising of the military and religious movement....it is concerning... and maybe show a twist in the "land of the dreams" concept that Thailand has been in recent years....

[bubba]

Great post. All good points. Probably the easiest one to violate is the butterfly rule, taking more than one girl from the same bar. I'm guilty!! I try to spread things out as much as possible, and I've never had issues. I also usually ask the girl what she thinks, before I take her out the first time, if I return another night and take another girl. Usually they say "mai pen rai". Whether they really mean that or not, not sure. But while they might lose some face, fact is they know the game, and guys will be guys. And they know there are so many pretty girls. You just need to use as good judgement as you can.

An excellent read that guys playing the bars should get is "Private Dancer". Great book and does a good job of giving you the facts of the bar trade, particularly from the girl's side. Sort of a "he said, she said" tale. One expat that used to write for the Bangkok Post said it should be handed out to every single guy coming in through immigration. I agree.

[Rossco]

Private Dancer a good read if poorly written. A little bigotted in some areas but does explain the bar scene.

For those interested for an evening over a beer I can give you the inside story on how bars operate - information gleaned from many bar owners. When you know it all then you will have a different perspective.

Who gets paid by who and why and how much could make a crime story!

Another good read is "Even Thai Girls Cry" - it is better written than Private Dancer and gives another perspective on the real life of a Thai girl. At the end of the day they have left school by 14 and have had some pretty shitty poorly paid jobs. The average income is low so the trade in Pattaya is lucrative by comparison.

As life has little value (earthly life under Budhism is just a phase into a greater life) it means that they do not place a high price on life.

Another example given to me was:
Give a Thai lady 3000 baht and she will have a great day out shopping, drinking with friends, Kareoke and cards.
One day and all gone.
Give her 100 baht a day and she will spend it accordingly.
The idea of saving is just not there.

A Thai girl told me that the only gifts she likes is Gold and cash. Flowers and cuddly toys, and the like, they find amusing as us Farangs are so sentimental. Cultural difference. Gold and cash they can use - also read Mobile phone - another kind of currency here!

Why does a girl 20+ go with a guy of 60+ - simple - guarantee. I am not talking about some bodily warranty but a Pension. These ladies know that a guy of 60+ has a pension - guaranteed income. It is not his stunning rugged good looks that appeals but financial security. Ok this applies more to the GG but it is also an insight in to how a Thai thinks.

I broke up with a long term GG (1 year in my country and Thailand) She was back working in a bar within one week and BF her first night. To us may seem a bit immoral - to them it is just survival.

Enough philosophy but hope all these posts help visitors with understanding where they are visiting.

Enjoy P4P and return home with some great memories but recognise that you are the fish out of water in a pond you will never fathom.

[sev7en]

As life has little value (earthly life under Budhism is just a phase into a greater life) it means that they do not place a high price on life.

That´s really scary to me. No news, but still something i can´t understand.

[oifarang]

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[oifarang]

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[bkklover]

It is considered a wholesale sale,which is ok.

You can buy beer in a supermarket between the hours of 2-5pm,the law is that you have to buy 15 large bottles minimum.
This seems daft to me as we tried to buy a case of 12 and were told that we had to get another 3 to be able to buy them!!