53 replies to this topic

[boss45]

http://www.worldcrunch.com/bangkok-sinking-thai-capital-risks-washing-sea/3476

[dixon cox]

“floods have always been a natural phenomenon considering that Bangkok is built on muddy soils, only 1.5 meters above sea level.”

It's a distinct possibility, with potential rising sea levels due to global warming.


But which comes first?

You might be more concerned about this (Stickman Weekly 17/7/2011):

All eyes are on Nana Plaza as what was for more than a decade Bangkok's hottest farang gogo bar area may not be of this world much longer. An offer has been made to the owners of the land on which Nana Plaza sits by another Indian Thai group, for a whopping 756 million baht.

I have said it before, and I will say it again - the land on which Nana Plaza sits is much too valuable for a bunch of gogo bars, some of which generate bugger all revenue. My prediction? In 18 months Nana Plaza will be history and the soi 4 we have come to know will change forever.

Source: http://www.stickmanb...ai-massage2.htm
(Towards the bottom)

What Stickman is talking about is not just hearsay, it has been looming closer and closer and known about for some years. It seems Nana Plaza's days are finally numbered.

[Rossco]

The writing has been on the wall for Nana for some time.

Over 4 years ago there was a seminar in Pattaya about the future of Pattaya and tourism. The authorities want the area defined between Beach Road and 2nd Road and Pattaya Tai (South) and Pattaya Nua (North) to become a family friendly zone. They want the independent (note independent not Simon Beer bar complexes etc) bars out.

They will retain Walking St as an adult attraction. Open beer bars seem to be OK too as there are no closed doors/curtains concealing 'untoward' activity!

Certainly this year many bars have/are struggling and many will close. Soi 6 is very quiet as are many other haunts.

The bars are not only suffering from a lack of tourism but a change in the tourist profile - Out with the Westerners and In with the Russians/Indians/Arabic tourists. These tourists do not visit bars in the same way as Westerners do - not many Pubs in the Middle East/India.

This change in tourism is a deliberate move by Thai Tourism Authority and their latest focal group are Iran and Israel.

Monger while you can.

[petesie]

As a lot of the revenue we pour into the bars gets recirculated back to Issan then I think the supply and demand will still exist for our extra curricular activities.

I can however see the City Elders eventually pushing it all back towards the Third Road.

[xyzzy]

This change in tourism is a deliberate move by Thai Tourism Authority and their latest focal group are Iran and Israel.

That combination should make for interesting times in Pattaya.

[Rossco]

The money to Issan is grey money - not in the Tourist financial reward numbers.

As there is no social security/dole/unemployment benefit in Thailand laying off 60,000 hookers in Hooker Hollow will not cost the state one baht.

The indirect impact will not be felt for some time in Issan so the powers that be do not give a damn.

Tourism represents only 7% of Thai GDP - that is the official input. The grey economy probably is somewhere like another 3% but immesurable.

Most 'independent' bars pay little or no tax so replacing them with 'sublet' open beer bars (like Simon/Drinking St) brings in tax - Simon etc pay tax on the rental income and not the individual turnover. So a quick balancing act says that the powers that be can bust the bars and actually reap a tax reward.

My forecast is that 35% of bars will close/abandon within 12 months.

In some ways it may be to our advantage - less bars but more busy and hopefully improved standards.

[sev7en]

My forecast is that 35% of bars will close/abandon within 12 months.

You been talking to paccers

[Rossco]

No - I have been watching the wrecker crews tearing down an old beer bar complex on 2nd Road up past Soi 6.

A number of smaller bars have just not had enough trade to sustain them.

Bars closing is not 'doom & gloom' as many are just run down old bars that are past their sell by date. No real loss and hopefully better venues will emerge.

The newer Simon Beer bar complexes (like Drinking St) only have one shared music system which is a big improvement over a number of bars all playing their own 'music' and trying to outdo each other on the decibel scale.

The main problem they have is what do they provide these family group tourists with? Pattaya was born on our favoured industry and the bars - take those away and you just have a void until they improve the tourist infrastructure.

I have heard that one company is opening a dolphinarium in Naklua.

[pacman]

Surely no one is surprised at the idea of the Thai government wanting to shift unsightly intoxicated farangs out of the sight of the wealthy Chinese & other "preferred" tourists.

This has been coming a while now & the GFC has played neatly into the hands of those pushing for change. And they do want change!

Old farangs with beer bellies wearing 'wifebeaters' revealing heavily tattooed arms while walking through Pattaya with a young Thai farmgirl tagging along for her money is a sight that sends shivers through most Thais.

This sight that has been constantly repeated on TV over many years is one that enrages those who care about their countries good image. Among Hi-So Thais & the monks, this is a subject of some urgency. Thaksin will have little opposition to any plan to change things.

I am amazed that they think they can keep WS as a tourist attraction, they must remember when the Singapore government bulldozed Bugis Street one night. All the tourists complained they had nowhere to go so they turned around & rebuilt it.

I am willing to wager that the new "government run" Walking Street will not be featuring any LB bars. I am sure there will be decency standards imposed on them to keep with the "family image". How silly, it will just make the new scene that much more desirable.

As for it going to 3rd Road, that has been the thinking for a while but if it means the undesirable farangs will still be walking through Pattaya, I doubt that it will be allowed to get off the ground. My guess if it will relocate far away from Pattaya.

And I note the grey economy attached to the tourism business is estimated at 3% of GDP. I assume that is a government estimate, I have seen other figures that put it higher than the official figure of 7% of GDP. When taking into account the foreign currency that arrives in LOS as a direct result of farang/bargirl interaction, the figure is estimated in the millions a week. That is an unsustainable loss for somewhere like Issan. And they vote Red all day long. Maybe they will open an International airport up there along with 1000 bars & clubs?

Where's my proof for all this? Sorry, no hab. It is speculation based on personal observations plus 100's of conversations with people who live there, both farang & locals. You can deny me all you like, call me names if it helps, but just don't be surprised when one day, Sois 6, 7 & 8 disappear. They will be first, others will follow.

[Rossco]

I have to agree about Soi 6, 7, 8. The bars are getting so squeezed by the authorities that running a bar is a minefield. The latest is that all bars must 'register' all their staff - copy of ID, photo and completed form - one copy in the venue and another with the police.

If the bar is visited and a person is 'working' there and the venue has no document then the bar is fined. Some poor guy in Soi Bukhouw used to get some GGs, from a neighbouring bar that closed early, freelancing at his joint. He had a visit and did not have the registration forms - there went the months profit.

Soi 6 used be like playing 'British Bulldog' to walk down - now you can play 'Spot the Farang'. Either Soi 7 or 8 - they expanded the hotel knocking down many bars to do so. At the Beach Road end of these 2 sois are a group of new Beer bars in a complex (same style Simon Beer bars) which meant closing down a number of independent bars.

It is changing - I do not think the plan is to eliminate all bars and venues but to get rid of the independent places and open more open/upmarket bar complexes.

The old Farang described by Pacman will always seek a cheap beer and cheap Bar Fine and he will just go hunting East of Soi Bukhouw. There are now in Pattaya an emerging new style venue - gentlemen's clubs. They are not in the most obvious places. Rioja is one and Kilamaree (something like that).

Pattaya is, and has been, involved in the oldest game in town since it began. It is unlikely that this will disappear all together - it will just become more discrete. Ref unemployment - many workers have already returned to Issan for low season - it is cheaper to live in the village than exist in Pattaya. Pattaya can provide rich pickings but in the absence of the sex tourist they will just settle back down in Issan as they did before.

The new style business may become internet based - looking back over the last 5 years the ladies have become more computer literate and no longer require someone to ghost write letters. So maybe it will become virtual relationships - with sponsorship of course.

I met a group of South Africans two weeks ago - first vist to Pattaya. They were having a great time. For many of us we see Pattaya today compared to 5 or more years ago when it was at its height BUT we are comparing two different views. Newcomers only see Pattaya as it is today and there is still enough bars/venues to satiate the biggest of appetites.

[dixon cox]

... but just don't be surprised when one day, Sois 6, 7 & 8 disappear. They will be first, others will follow.

.. and Hi-Boss has just been refurbished - Bummer :|

Maybe beer bar and go-go bar owners will start appreciating Western customers again as more undesirable nations populate Pattaya. Although it'll probaby just be our fault.

The Pattaya clean-up is being talked about much the way Nana Plaza's was for years. But Nana Plaza now has a date hanging over it. It could be interesting.

[mardhi]

There seems to be a view that 'Farang' money is not needed as part of some grand plan however I have a very different take on it. The simple fact of the matter is that Thailand Inc had no option but to look to other markets to fill hotels. By any measure, they have succeeded as Western economies are going through rough times.

I sincerely doubt anyone is particularly happy at the 'quality' of these tourists - however as we know in Thailand, volume = good. Therefore having 500 low spending tourists on walking Street must be better than 50 high spending tourists as they may spend money.

It is simple (flawed) Thai logic that dictates volume = good. Still, 7-11 seem to be doing well out of it, they even ask you now on Walking street if you want your bottle of beer opened at the counter !!!! and they pay shed loads of tax. [/i]