i wouldnt even entertain the idea of a full on thai partner.
the culture is diferent.
money is number one.
not you.
you are just a falang.
its hard not to get attached to the odd one, but it will never go anywhere.
or it will end with you being shoved off a balcony in jontiem.
The 4 F's as opposed to a relationship...
Started by
petesie
, Mar 04 2011 04:04 PM
83 replies to this topic
#13
Legend
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Posted 07 March 2011 - 12:25 AM
"im sure if u look around u can find a sunken face under caloried 10 year vet tranny bar girl, her face might not be as uniquely sunken or her ass dents so dented but just have a look, life is full of options." - boomdraw.
#14
manfredmann
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Posted 07 March 2011 - 01:27 PM
Interesting topic, and one I think about quite a bit. Personally, I am not a big p4p person...something I have had a bit of for sure...but, ultimately, I am more interested in a sincere relationship. However, as we all know, a sincere relationship is difficult, no matter what stripe or location.
Another thing we all know is that there are always exceptions to everything. Anthony makes a good point about the significance of the cultural differences...that is a real and significant challenge. But is it insurmountable...? On average, probably not...but in individual terms, there is always the exception. But that 'exceptional behavior/ability' is as necessary on the part of the farang as it is on the part of the LB. Both need to be exceptional.
Obviously, most of the topics and discussions on the forum relate to LBs in the p4p world, and most BMs are interested in or engaging in that scene and not having the time or perhaps the interest in finding, meeting, and developing relationships with LBs who have nothing to do with it. Therein, there is not a lot of information/knowledge about the viability of a relationship with LBs who are just normal people, living and working in Thailand.
Personally, as much as I enjoy the p4p topics (and I do), I would also enjoy more conversations regarding experiences with girls outside the industry. I'm not requesting them, as beggars can't be choosers and I'm not yet posting anything on that topic. But I guess many of us here might also be interested in LBs outside the p4p world...?
One thing I do think, with regard to this topic, is that a relationship with anyone who is in the sex industry, whether LB or GG, and regardless of location or culture, is very difficult to manage or maintain with the kind of sincerity most seek in a true relationship...due to the simple fact that sex workers get a distorted view, over time, of what normal even means. It is an industry where truth is fiction and fantasy is the daily fare. If people think, for example, that movie stars live in an isolated world where fantasy becomes reality, imagine how a p4p worker begins to view men in general over time. I have had several women friends who were also topless dancers, college students making money to pay for their education. And I knew them outside of their work and before they began dancing. We often discussed how their attitudes towards men changed over the time of their employment and how they began to just see men in general as assholes, liars, and undependable womanizers. The longer they worked, the greater this view. And that is just topless dancing. Imagine what the attitudes over time towards men becomes for prostitutes.
Again, there are always possible exceptions, however, I think if you want a sincere and loving, monogamous relationship, it's best to be looking outside p4p. That is a point that many others have made here before, and I think it is very true.
Cheers Petesie, good thread
Another thing we all know is that there are always exceptions to everything. Anthony makes a good point about the significance of the cultural differences...that is a real and significant challenge. But is it insurmountable...? On average, probably not...but in individual terms, there is always the exception. But that 'exceptional behavior/ability' is as necessary on the part of the farang as it is on the part of the LB. Both need to be exceptional.
Obviously, most of the topics and discussions on the forum relate to LBs in the p4p world, and most BMs are interested in or engaging in that scene and not having the time or perhaps the interest in finding, meeting, and developing relationships with LBs who have nothing to do with it. Therein, there is not a lot of information/knowledge about the viability of a relationship with LBs who are just normal people, living and working in Thailand.
Personally, as much as I enjoy the p4p topics (and I do), I would also enjoy more conversations regarding experiences with girls outside the industry. I'm not requesting them, as beggars can't be choosers and I'm not yet posting anything on that topic. But I guess many of us here might also be interested in LBs outside the p4p world...?
One thing I do think, with regard to this topic, is that a relationship with anyone who is in the sex industry, whether LB or GG, and regardless of location or culture, is very difficult to manage or maintain with the kind of sincerity most seek in a true relationship...due to the simple fact that sex workers get a distorted view, over time, of what normal even means. It is an industry where truth is fiction and fantasy is the daily fare. If people think, for example, that movie stars live in an isolated world where fantasy becomes reality, imagine how a p4p worker begins to view men in general over time. I have had several women friends who were also topless dancers, college students making money to pay for their education. And I knew them outside of their work and before they began dancing. We often discussed how their attitudes towards men changed over the time of their employment and how they began to just see men in general as assholes, liars, and undependable womanizers. The longer they worked, the greater this view. And that is just topless dancing. Imagine what the attitudes over time towards men becomes for prostitutes.
Again, there are always possible exceptions, however, I think if you want a sincere and loving, monogamous relationship, it's best to be looking outside p4p. That is a point that many others have made here before, and I think it is very true.
Cheers Petesie, good thread
"there she was just a walkin' down the street..."
#15
dixon cox
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Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:39 PM
A very nicely written post manfredmann, of which I agree with you on all countsInteresting topic, and one I think about quite a bit.
I have pondered upon adding to this thread for a while, but due to the quality of the above post I decided to add.
On the internet I choose to keep accounts of certain parts of my life to a minimum, including my own personal relationship experiences with ladyboys. This is purely because the audience is a total unknown to me, yet those friends and acquaintances I meet in Thailand are openly aware of what I do, this is because I have met these people personally and I know them.
Therefor, as much as I would like to share details with some of you guys (I have a number of years experience under my belt already on this subject) I am reluctant to do so. Experience tells me not to be overly open (which is a shame) with a bunch of single-minded sex tourists, of which there are many here and on other forums, certainly on the outer surface anyway. I have seen several train-wrecks happen on forums in the past and I'd rather not be the driver.
I also expect many guys here are also reluctant to share, or to admit to having relationships with ladyboys by discussing their issues, successes, failures and feelings with others due to not knowing who is reading. Also those threads are commonly ridiculed by the macho-men who think the only way to look cool is to fuck-and-forget (and pay), and then report about their conquests on the forum, to rapturous applause and hero cheers from the other wannabe heros.
However, I do wager that the percentage of guys who would really love to have one single ladyboy as a partner in their life, even if long distance, is far higher than the general chat and comments on this and other forums would suggest.
It is not at all macho or clever to see working girls as nothing more than toys to be played with, it is very sad that some people are unable (or unwilling) to see beyond their job and not see them as people with real feelings, hearts and dreams.
So many permutations of how two people can come together, where they met and where they came from, just as in Farangland. But just because cross-cultural relationships of this kind are difficult and need additional extra effort and understanding from both sides does not mean they are always doomed to failure. And just because guys have been burned in the past does not mean that such relationships are not achievable by others, or themselves. If such a relationship is what you seek then you just need to be more careful when choosing your potential partner.
I could name several BM's (of course I won't) that were so besotted with a ladyboy in the past that they were prepared to dispose of their Farangland life and move to Thailand to be with the one they loved. But since things turned sour they have taken on the persona of a hater and jump in with the big man macho-talk whenever the opportunity arises.
The role of the "sex-tourist BM" gets far more plaudits from the crowd than the role of the "relationship BM".
Despite the above, I fully understand for many that going to Thailand to ST and LT the lovely ladyboys in the bars and streets is an escape from real life (and possibly a wife) and the need to hire a prostitute exists, but any further connections with the girl would only add unwanted complications and issues to your life. That scenario has certainly been the case during my adult existence at some time or another.
To anybody currently in or seeking to be in a long-term relationship with a ladyboy... I wish you every success!
Meum cerebrum nocet
#16
petesie
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Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:55 PM
Well written post DC with a lot of thought behind it.....
"My advice is just thank the god that doesnt exist for the rib he didnt take to create the women thats not a women that he didnt make for the naturaly uncut cock n enjoy it, they sure are fun." - Boomdraw
#17
manfredmann
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Posted 07 March 2011 - 09:01 PM
Thanks for the kind words, DC, and likewise. As Petesie just said, a well written and thoughtful post.
"there she was just a walkin' down the street..."
#18
Surin Nix
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Posted 08 March 2011 - 01:11 AM
An interesting thread Petesie. Exceptionally well-considered posts by DC and MM.
Petesie, I'm wired more like you and the others who lean towards that desire to have someone special. Like so many others, I too have had plenty of back-room, short-time experiences, spanning many years, and many continents. It seems, however, that the testosterone-fueled frenzy of my 20's and 30's has given way to a desire for "quality, versus quantity".
For me, it simply boils down to the fact I want to like and appreciate the person I'm having sex with. Can I have short-time, backroom sex with a person I don't particularly like or appreciate?...Sure. Is it my preference?...No. To experience a shared-sense of affection, the ability to have a real conversation (beyond: "Where you from? What your name? "How long you in Thailand? I go with you"), to wake-up with a partner and be happy to see her, rather than that familiar and intense urge to have her vacate the room, all those facets are my distinct preference.
But Thailand... It is like no place I've ever seen in the ability of the women to "play" their men for financial gain. Using this knowledge that some men do want relationships, and using their considerable personal charm and that famous Thai smile, they can trick even the most jaded of us. Sometimes.
To gain some perspective, I found it enormously helpful to read the book: "My Name Lon, You Like Me?", by Derek Sharron.
The book is the story of Lon, a longtime bar-girl. She comes from Issan, and her story is the story of almost every gg and ladyboy the sex-tourist will encounter during his visit to LOS. Having been now multiple times to LOS, it is remarkable to me seeing the lifestyle-framework Lon describes.....the poor roots in Issan, the chauvinism of Thai culture, the expectation to send money home and help the parents maintain "face" through her earnings....
...all of that I now see being played out, like a script, with almost every gg and LB I meet.
P4P is a big stage-production in which many of us are unsuspecting actors, playing out a script that was written for us long before we set foot on the ground in LOS. For any of us who have seen a gg or LB in an internet cafe, sweetalking her farang BF....only to have her as "where you go?", as you walk out of the BF's camera field-of-view, you know that it is true.
That said, I choose to remember that this is also a bit of a script that they have learned from their predecessors and a long history of P4P culture. I keep the awareness of Lon's story (which is all their stories), in my mind, while at the same time, remembering they are human beings trying to survive, that they are not machines, and that a little bit of kindness, hopefully, still lends a bit of dignity to the people we encounter.
That said, I still like Thai women and LB's very much. I'd like to have a special one. I just highly doubt I'll ever find in her in P4P, and I will not look for such a relationship there.
See you at C&D's sometime in the near future!
Nix
BTW. I wish "Rob" would post sometime and let us know how things have worked out with he and his LB in Germany.
Petesie, I'm wired more like you and the others who lean towards that desire to have someone special. Like so many others, I too have had plenty of back-room, short-time experiences, spanning many years, and many continents. It seems, however, that the testosterone-fueled frenzy of my 20's and 30's has given way to a desire for "quality, versus quantity".
For me, it simply boils down to the fact I want to like and appreciate the person I'm having sex with. Can I have short-time, backroom sex with a person I don't particularly like or appreciate?...Sure. Is it my preference?...No. To experience a shared-sense of affection, the ability to have a real conversation (beyond: "Where you from? What your name? "How long you in Thailand? I go with you"), to wake-up with a partner and be happy to see her, rather than that familiar and intense urge to have her vacate the room, all those facets are my distinct preference.
But Thailand... It is like no place I've ever seen in the ability of the women to "play" their men for financial gain. Using this knowledge that some men do want relationships, and using their considerable personal charm and that famous Thai smile, they can trick even the most jaded of us. Sometimes.
To gain some perspective, I found it enormously helpful to read the book: "My Name Lon, You Like Me?", by Derek Sharron.
The book is the story of Lon, a longtime bar-girl. She comes from Issan, and her story is the story of almost every gg and ladyboy the sex-tourist will encounter during his visit to LOS. Having been now multiple times to LOS, it is remarkable to me seeing the lifestyle-framework Lon describes.....the poor roots in Issan, the chauvinism of Thai culture, the expectation to send money home and help the parents maintain "face" through her earnings....
...all of that I now see being played out, like a script, with almost every gg and LB I meet.
P4P is a big stage-production in which many of us are unsuspecting actors, playing out a script that was written for us long before we set foot on the ground in LOS. For any of us who have seen a gg or LB in an internet cafe, sweetalking her farang BF....only to have her as "where you go?", as you walk out of the BF's camera field-of-view, you know that it is true.
That said, I choose to remember that this is also a bit of a script that they have learned from their predecessors and a long history of P4P culture. I keep the awareness of Lon's story (which is all their stories), in my mind, while at the same time, remembering they are human beings trying to survive, that they are not machines, and that a little bit of kindness, hopefully, still lends a bit of dignity to the people we encounter.
That said, I still like Thai women and LB's very much. I'd like to have a special one. I just highly doubt I'll ever find in her in P4P, and I will not look for such a relationship there.
See you at C&D's sometime in the near future!
Nix
BTW. I wish "Rob" would post sometime and let us know how things have worked out with he and his LB in Germany.
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Nix
#19
mahuluvr
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Posted 10 March 2011 - 04:38 PM
i wouldnt even entertain the idea of a full on thai partner.
the culture is diferent.
money is number one.
not you.
you are just a falang.
its hard not to get attached to the odd one, but it will never go anywhere.
or it will end with you being shoved off a balcony in jontiem.
Well, unfortunately I have to agree with Anthony70. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much Petesie, man everyone gets caught up once in a while. It happens. And when it does you just have to remember the good times, learn from the bad, and apply it to the future. My dad told me once after a certain heartbreak, "Son, its just a part of getting older".
In my 20's I met a girl at a lake. Smokin hot with long dark hair and a killer body, she was with her GF's, I was with my friends, etc...We struck up a convo and next thing you know we are going out on dates and having a great time.
So, as you can guess, about 3 weeks into the relationship she tells me she is a former prostitute and now a stripper. Hmmmm, what to do now? Turns out she was sexually molested by her step father and ran away from home at 15 to escape the abuse and became a teenage prostitute. She was preyed upon by the filth that covet these girls.
We ended up dating for a few years, but I ended it due to other factors. I once went to visit her in the strip club for lunch one day. Of course she had her "regulars". Guys who she would work to spend money for her time. Many were married older guys, just looking for someone nice looking to have lunch with, and get the occasional crotch rub. I never went back to the strip club after that one time and did not think about what she did at work. She was bi-sexual and constantly horny and would bring home other strippers for threesomes etc...
On the days she would come home with loads of cash, she would want to blow it immediately! This meant gifts for me, expensive dinners, etc...and the house she lived in (cute little house on the water) was paid for and furnished my one really rich guy. He also bought her a convertible mustang. He owned a big construction business. He used to come over and fuck her during his lunch break sometimes. She actually introduced me to him once. Nice guy, good looking and very polite and smart.
I guess the point of this long true story is that if you meet a girl in the P4P industry at a bar or club or whatever, then I think that you only represent her business to her. At least that is the point I think I was trying to make. Still, having know this, I got caught up once also, and the girl hurt my heart a little. It just happens. You learn from it and try not repeat it in the future.
The Lady doth protest too much me thinks
#20
petesie
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Posted 10 March 2011 - 04:58 PM
Very well thought out and extremely interesting responses fellas...
I won't get trapped in a Thai Venus fly trap scenario...not these days...but I will tend to share my emotions with those who I care for ....to a limited degree...then as usual a saunter down Soi 6 brings me back down to Earth...
I won't get trapped in a Thai Venus fly trap scenario...not these days...but I will tend to share my emotions with those who I care for ....to a limited degree...then as usual a saunter down Soi 6 brings me back down to Earth...
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Kate Sep 2009.jpg 50.42KB
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"My advice is just thank the god that doesnt exist for the rib he didnt take to create the women thats not a women that he didnt make for the naturaly uncut cock n enjoy it, they sure are fun." - Boomdraw
#21
petesie
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Posted 10 March 2011 - 07:38 PM
Like most of us I enjoy a forage amongst the GG's now and then....from Thai Love Links I encountered a lunatic sex mad big titted Hairdresser from Chum Prae.....and then there was a wee nurse who turned into a stalker...and then there was...you get the picture...
A personal favourite has always been wee Ning from Rolling Stone bar...a lovely natured genuine girl who would like me to marry her and drag her back to the Sand Pit....
Comments on a postcard to......
A personal favourite has always been wee Ning from Rolling Stone bar...a lovely natured genuine girl who would like me to marry her and drag her back to the Sand Pit....
Comments on a postcard to......
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Ning.jpg 42.41KB
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"My advice is just thank the god that doesnt exist for the rib he didnt take to create the women thats not a women that he didnt make for the naturaly uncut cock n enjoy it, they sure are fun." - Boomdraw
#22
petesie
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Posted 12 March 2011 - 04:23 AM
Hand on my heart though....Katie always has me done up like a kipper..
We've moved on from da "Lub" bit to a take care basis....how could I resist?
We've moved on from da "Lub" bit to a take care basis....how could I resist?
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kate september 09.jpg 64.7KB
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"My advice is just thank the god that doesnt exist for the rib he didnt take to create the women thats not a women that he didnt make for the naturaly uncut cock n enjoy it, they sure are fun." - Boomdraw
#23
OTK
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Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:12 AM
PetesieHand on my heart though....Katie always has me done up like a kipper..
We've moved on from da "Lub" bit to a take care basis....how could I resist?
Does Kate every take a bad photo?
#24
petesie
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Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:38 AM
"My advice is just thank the god that doesnt exist for the rib he didnt take to create the women thats not a women that he didnt make for the naturaly uncut cock n enjoy it, they sure are fun." - Boomdraw
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