21 replies to this topic

[Rossco]

Face

Wonderful excuse to do what they want when they want. Face is selective - when it suits they use it!

I have had ore experience of face than I could 'shake a stick at'.

Farangs, apparently, have no face - I find that rude to the 100% level.

Most Thais are fairly uneducated and I find it irritating that they use face as a weapon to appear superior.

One numbing aspect is that, for a child in a school, to ask a question is 'face orientated'. Pupil looks stupid/teacher looks stupid - now that is stupid.

To explore is important both for the student and the teacher. This 'face' restricts learning and betterment.

I am not suggesting a revolution but to ask a question is normal....

My Thai teacher told me "If you ask directions" the Thai will give them to you - even if they have no idea - to save face. That is ridiculous. The often used comment is 'Mai Glai' - Not Far. They say this knowing not how far....

The concept is that it is better to give a 'positive' response rather than a negative one. Arghhh!!!!!

Yes the smile is terrific (I wish the West was the same) BUT the system can be very alien.

So it is not a bad thing but just takes getting used to - I took 2 hours to find the local water company in 2005!

The inabilty to ask questions restrains their abilty to learn - do not ask as you may look stupid.

This is totally alien to Western ways.

Rant over.......(for now)

[gildas]

All too true. The ability to ask even the dumbest fucking question or just say "no bloody idea" without a seconds thought is much underrated.

I reckon the western cultural heritage of individualism and intellectual inquiry are two of the reasons we sort of rule world at the moment though the environmental arguments of Jared Diamond in his book "Guns Germand & Steel" also played a part

Of course the Christian church did it's very best to squash both between around 500 and 1500AD and arguably still does to this day.

I asked a TG girl to call a bus company for me after I tried but my lack of Thai got in the way. Would she? Nope. To ask would "loose face". It's not universal, but it is pretty common.

Sometimes it's endearing, sometimes infuriating.

[soulboy]

I think many people excuse bad behaviour as "saving face "

Surely showing off , being boastful , looking down on others etc etc , can have nothing to do with Thai culture or any culture for that matter .

I've lost count of the amount of times I've read of a bar girl doing something wrong only to be excused as to point it out would be some loss of face for her , they really can't lose

[stonefre]

I've had a bar girl tell me I caused her to lose face when I refused to buy her a drink when she asked for one. Seems face can be a manipulating tool to be used at will.

[Ivor Biggun]

I agree - face is very selective. Personally i think its all a load of bollocks, like a lot of things (such as Sinsot) its used when it suits.

[Legend]

remind me.
is face the one, where a bar girl can fuck 5 farang a day from her bar, but it is frowned upon if you have been with her, and walk past her bar 3 weeks later with a diferent one.?

[onetruesaxon]

remind me.
is face the one, where a bar girl can fuck 5 farang a day from her bar, but it is frowned upon if you have been with her, and walk past her bar 3 weeks later with a diferent one.?

That's the one. You hit the nail right on the head their.

[laptop]

My Thai teacher told me "If you ask directions" the Thai will give them to you - even if they have no idea - to save face. That is ridiculous. The often used comment is 'Mai Glai' - Not Far. They say this knowing not how far....

Now that is frustrating!

[Legend]

what about the one where, you pay an lb your usual fee.
she tells her mates you paid her 4 times the amount you did.
is that a" face " thing.?

[stonefre]

I think they call that lying.

[matchman]

I must admit I do love the double standards around face.

I tend to now think of 2 types of face when in LOS the serious Face issues with better educated Thai's (Using the correct Wa for example.) and the Face that's used as a tool to take advantage of the punter. (As in you no buy me drink I lose face, cannot BF another lady becuase you barfined me.)

I'm careful with the first type and have found that the second type isnt as much of a problem once the Thai realises you've been around the block a few times and are not buying it. Probably the best defense around the Face issue is the smile, keep smiling and most of the time there is Sod all the Thai can do, infact any of them can lose a great deal of face with other Thai's if they react badly even to a farang when you smile.

As mentioned by a few the worst area involved in Face loss is the not knowing something and their answering as if they know the answer, it is prevelant across all of Asia not just LOS and I think really does hurt the peoples education. (Very Sad Really.)

One area not mentioned directly is the need to avoid confrontation built into life in LOS, my guess is that its primarily because the whole society lives in each others space and they cannot afford conflict in that type of environment. (For those that havent tried it yet, live in what they call a village for a week and you'll understand the complete loss of privacy involved.)

Although my Thai isnt great I'm 99% sure I'm correct when I say that the Thai language doesnt actually have any definitive negatives. Is there a Thai word for NO? There is the Thai sentences for NO, one of which is mild and another is strong but both are actuallly "NOT YES"

Well if we all acted the same how boring would that be!

[Sweet&Wild]

I've had a bar girl tell me I caused her to lose face when I refused to buy her a drink when she asked for one. Seems face can be a manipulating tool to be used at will.

I have had that happen even without her asking for a drink ......

But on that occasion it was an "honest" feeling as she didn´t use it for getting something out of me, on the contrary, she told me later when her complaint could have been quite counterproductive .....
I just explained to her I had invited already enough ladyboys, so this time she had to do without, but I didn´t intend to slight her.... And then it was ok. Mutual respect was restored!


I don´t think it´s wise to complain of double standards in Thailand (though I don´t deny this exists).
First of all, FACE is just a different cultural code, which we as foreigners and guests should simply be sensitive to.
In most "Western" countries, in particular with Protestant background, people value much more honesty and reliability. We simply hate to be lied at (I certainly do).
But then how often do I see Westerners being rude and disrespectful when they believe they are just being "honest" and "open" .......................?