37 replies to this topic

[ScottishLadyboyTerrorist]

Awesome mate, first class

[onetruesaxon]

Got this from the Times online



Thousands of anti-government protesters in Thailand stormed a satellite TV station today, breaching an army cordon and demanding that officials re-open their channel.

The “People” channel and internet networks were closed down yesterday to prevent the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, widely known as Red Shirts, from broadcasting.

The attempt by protesters to regain control is the first major confrontation in a three-day state of emergency in the country.

Police and soldiers fired water cannon and teargas in a failed attempt to disperse thousands who climbed over rolls of barbed wire and forced open the gate of the station’s compound.

Most of the soldiers pulled back from the Thaicom Pcl satellite station, about 60km (37 miles) north of Bangkok, leaving the grounds largely in control of the Red Shirts.

“We want our TV back. You cannot shut our eyes and ears,” Jatuporn Prompan, a Red Shirts leader, said from the back of a truck after leading the protesters into the compound.

But he and other supporters of Thaksin Shinawatra, the former Prime Minister who was ousted in a military coup in 2006, have not yet entered the main building which houses the satellite equipment.

The Government seized equipment at the station yesterday saying that it was inciting violence.

Panitan Wattanayagorn, a government spokesman, said the channel cannot go back on air. “They are still distorting information and we cannot allow that.”

The protesters, who briefly besieged parliament on Wednesday, seized guns, batons, shields, bullets and teargas cannon from police and soldiers and displayed them at the station.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has said he will not order a crackdown on the mostly rural and working-class protesters who have also ignored orders to leave Bangkok’s main shopping district since Saturday. The country is now in its 27th day of protests demanding new elections.

Mr Abhisit faces pressure to either compromise and call an election that he could easily lose, or start a crackdown that could stir up even more unrest.

Most analysts doubt the authorities will use force to remove thousands of protesters from the shopping area — a politically risky decision for Mr Abhisit as his 16-month-old coalition Government struggles to build support outside Bangkok.

Sansern Kaewkamnerd, an army spokesman, said that security forces would maintain order “in accordance with the law from use of soft to harsh means in seven steps if protesters violate [the decree]”.

Those steps included baton and shield charges, water hoses, teargas and rubber bullets. About 30,000 security forces were deployed across Bangkok, he added.

Much of Bangkok was calm and life went on as normal. Many of the malls in the central shopping and hotel district, where the Red Shirts have camped out since April 3, had reopened.

Security forces were not visibly deployed at the main rally site, although it is right in front of the police headquarters, opting to stay in their bases or on roads at least 2km away in an apparent attempt to avoid provocation.

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[Rossco]

Now the fatalities have started - 18 as of Sunday morning.

This is what happened back in 1972 and in 1976 -I hope it is resolved soon as the reputation is becoming tarnished and will take time to recover.

It is ironic that the Reds are shouting for democracy but turned down an offer of a general election in 3 months. Must be a new form of democracy. Tearing down any government only leads to civil unrest and strife.

So far there has been no visible reaction outside Bangkok but that could easily change. My local Thai bar has/had the Red channel on TV every day. I do not understand enough Thai to comprehend all the chants but the tone/rhetoric reminded me of other rallies from the 1930's. There was much anger in the tone and delivery - definitely stirring up the audience.

The next day my local bar was closed - they had all gone to Bangkok to join in!

Stirring up a mass population will only have a bad outcome. The next few days could be a major crossroads to the eventual outcome.

[onetruesaxon]

BANGKOK — Both government and protesters mourned their dead Sunday after a night of savage street fighting that left 21 dead, but neither side appeared ready to compromise to end the political stalemate that has bedeviled Thailand for five years and threatens more violence.

At least 874 others were injured when security forces tried to crack down Saturday on demonstrators who have been staging a month of disruptive protests in the Thai capital, seeking to have Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajva dissolve Parliament and call new elections. It was the country's worst political violence in nearly two decades.

Bullet casings, pools of blood and shattered army vehicles littered the streets near a main tourist area where soldiers had pitched nighttime battles with the protesters.

The fighting halted after the army pulled back its troops and initiated an informal truce. However, there was no sign that either side was willing to negotiate the issues underlying the protests.

[onetruesaxon]

[Crackerjax]

No Justice, No Peace

[RobiSLO]

The victim in this conflict are Bangkok residents and people of Isaan.. honest working class not rich elite. When the dust settles politicians will still have money and toys to play, poor will still be poor…on the other hand Thai tourism and reputation will return to last years... But this is Thailand, their country not ours so up to them.

BR

[onetruesaxon]

[ScottishLadyboyTerrorist]

I see it's only getting better... What next.

[onetruesaxon]

Some diffrent views from the residents who live there. It is there city and country.


EKASIT PAOSILA

The news on the ruling party's illegal donations means parliament may have to be dissolved.

I'm not pleased about this. There is no one better qualified to rule than Prime Minister Abhisit; I support him totally.

I would rather parliament stayed as it is. The red-shirt mob are causing a lot of problems; they behave as if they own Bangkok.

They always claim to be peaceful and say any bomb-throwing or gun-firing etc is done by someone else.

The weekend events were totally unexpected. I think the protesters were expecting rubber bullets, but the soldiers were certainly not prepared to receive live ammunition.

There is talk about a third party being involved. There is video showing men wearing black with their faces covered carrying machine guns. They were firing from the mob, we presume at the soldiers.

Of the 21 people killed, four were soldiers, but many more soldiers are seriously injured in hospital.

At the same time, there may have been some people against the red-shirt mob, who were firing from rooftops.

I think the majority of people in Bangkok are against these red-shirt gatherings, but I don't know how many would come forward to say so. They are typically non-committal.

DAUNG, Bangkok

My husband and I were at the demonstration on Saturday. I had not supported the red-shirt movement before then.


My husband said the soldier's gun had live rounds because there was no adaptor on the barrel

But after the government shut down the People TV station, we were only seeing the government's side of the story on their own channel, so we went to see what was happening.

It was peaceful for hours before the trouble started. The soldiers had been sweating in the afternoon sun so we gave them some of our water. We were in the front line.

A helicopter dropped the first tear gas at about 1700, then about two hours later they dropped more. Even with a damp cloth over my face it hurt, especially because I wear contact lenses.

At about 1930 the troops started walking forward. My husband saw one soldier who was on the tank unlock an M16 gun. My husband said the weapon had live rounds because there was no adaptor on the barrel.

Some media reports said the red-shirts had guns too, but it's not true. The soldiers started hitting us, my husband was fighting back.

I saw many people lying on the ground, some were bloody, some were in shock from the tear gas. I had to leave when the tear gas got too much.

I didn't join the red-shirt demonstration to support [former Prime Minister] Thaksin; I joined because I don't like the Democracy Party.

I think we should have new elections, but I think the government will try to hold onto power instead.

If the red-shirts choose violence I will not support them any more. We joined them because they are fighting peacefully.

AEKTHADA CHIVAKANIT, Bangkok


I support the government but I've not joined any rallies so far.

I think the red-shirts are wrong to try to pressurise the government. It's because Thailand is democratic that they even have the rights to demonstrate.

It's widely believed they started the fight by engaging the troops. Apparently they were armed, not like what they were claiming at all.


Bangkok is emptying for the Thai New Year holiday, which will give the government more flexibility, there's less potential for collateral damage

There is a lot of speculation that a third group was involved, that armed men in black were firing into the troops and the red-shirts. But it's hard to get the facts verified, the media here is not good.

I think the government was right to shut down the opposition People TV channel. Even though it's not really fair, I think it might help end this whole standoff more quickly.

Although, I'm not optimistic about short term stability.

Bangkok is starting to empty out for the Thai New Year holiday [13-15 April]. This will give the government and the army more flexibility, they don't need to worry so much about collateral damage.

I have supported the red-shirts for three years and am convinced that they fight for real democracy and not just for Thaksin.

I support them because the government does not support democracy, Thailand is like a military state now.

We would like to see parliament dissolved, and power given back to the people so they can choose their own government by themselves.

Will this happen? I think the government will hold onto power for as long as they can, because they know that if they hold an election, they will lose.

It's like they don't dare to listen to the people's voice.

Press and media are controlled by the government; they say the government and the military is right and they don't report how many people died at the weekend.

I know 21 people died because I saw this on a private TV station, not the government one.

The protesters have the right to protest, but the soldiers have no right to use a gun, even when they're angry. And the government should know not to let them.

[Crackerjax]

In principle I believe in one man one vote democracy, but that is not to say that it can't be seriously subverted by money. Hell, that's the biggest problem with electoral politics in the US, so obviously the risk of skewed results due to "vote buying" is even greater in a poor country like Thailand. Certainly the reports of "Men in Black" and "3rd parties"raises the issue of shadowy interests at work hoping to exacerbate the conflict in Bangkok.

Nonetheless the current problems in LOS cannot be laid soley on Thaksin, and the idea that the majority of the Red Shirt protesters are there because they get a few hundred baht and 3 squares a day seems ridiculous to me. Thailand's history includes plenty of bloody military crackdowns, so the possibility of dying for one's cause is always there if you choose to go out in the street.

While Thaksin is certainly an opportunistic demagogue primarily seeking to feather his own nest, the fact is that he delivered to the rural majority what the traditional elites ignored for too long. People support the policies (medical care, rural business loans, etc.) not necessarily the man, and urbanites complaining about country bumpkins coming into Bangkok and acting like they own it miss the point. If the elites won't adequately share the nation's wealth there is always the chance that it will be taken from them - forcibly.

Hopefully the Songkran break will allow for a cooling off period and bloodshed will be minimized. Sounds like the judicial wheels are again turning to step in with some bogus "legal" decision regarding illegal political contributions that will allow the powers that be a face-saving way to depose Abhisit. Remember they got rid of the last Thaksin surrogate by ruling he illegally starred in a cooking show or some such nonsense!

It seems to me that what is really needed in the long run is for the Yellow Shirts/traditional educated urban elites to put up a candidate and a policy platform that co-opts Thaksin's most popular hits while keeping the money-grubbing to a minimum. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be a high priority for them....

[dixon cox]

In principle I believe ...

A surprisingly enlightened post from the smut-meister