19 replies to this topic

[hankhavelock]

Just from what I've seen being around some schools and other places where there are lots of young Thais (non-tourist areas and away from bars), I would not be surprised if it is around 2 - 4% of the young Thai male population. That's my guess anyway. Also I'm guessing it is increasing.

That would actually match the Indonesian estimates, which I find hard to believe.

But yes, Indonesian statistics seem to support your percentages. I'm just not completely sure of the validity of these statistics yet - but I do find you observation very interesting.

H

Actually, here is a quote from a good Indonesian transsexual friend's research proposal for a masters program rgd. adversity met by trans-people in Indonesia. That's where the 7 million came up...

What do you think?

H

"Even though transgenderism has been part of Indonesian culture for centuries, Indonesian transgender people’s well-being and quality of life are in jeopardy (Ariyanto and Triawan, 2007).

With an estimated 7.000.000 transpeople Indonesia has one of the largest transgender populations in the World (Efendy Rustam, 2009). The nation also has a diverse mix of different ethnic groups (Javanese, Bataknese, Sundanese, Manadonese, Maduranese, Ambonese and numerous others) with very different values that don’t always guarantee the necessary degree of open-mindedness to deal judiciously and empathetically with “uncommon” behaviours – such as transgenderism. Furthermore, religion (Islam in particular) tends to be a main divisive factor of people and mind sets and plays a major role in this dilemma (Boellstorff, 2005)."

[boss45]

Just from what I've seen being around some schools and other places where there are lots of young Thais (non-tourist areas and away from bars), I would not be surprised if it is around 2 - 4% of the young Thai male population. That's my guess anyway. Also I'm guessing it is increasing.

That would actually match the Indonesian estimates, which I find hard to believe.

But yes, Indonesian statistics seem to support your percentages. I'm just not completely sure of the validity of these statistics yet - but I do find you observation very interesting.

H

Actually, here is a quote from a good Indonesian transsexual friend's research proposal for a masters program rgd. adversity met by trans-people in Indonesia. That's where the 7 million came up...

What do you think?

H

"Even though transgenderism has been part of Indonesian culture for centuries, Indonesian transgender people’s well-being and quality of life are in jeopardy (Ariyanto and Triawan, 2007).

With an estimated 7.000.000 transpeople Indonesia has one of the largest transgender populations in the World (Efendy Rustam, 2009). The nation also has a diverse mix of different ethnic groups (Javanese, Bataknese, Sundanese, Manadonese, Maduranese, Ambonese and numerous others) with very different values that don’t always guarantee the necessary degree of open-mindedness to deal judiciously and empathetically with “uncommon” behaviours – such as transgenderism. Furthermore, religion (Islam in particular) tends to be a main divisive factor of people and mind sets and plays a major role in this dilemma (Boellstorff, 2005)."

If your figures are accurate that means barfines and rates would significantly less than LOS due to the supply and demand ratio. But that would not take into account quality. Any pics of Indo LB's?

[sharkdog]

An LB I know sent me a picture of the 'Draft Day' scene when she had to go back to her hometown and report for potential military duty (when Thai males turn 21).

There are about 40 - 50 guys sitting on the floor with their shirts off, waiting for their military fitness examination (to determine if the are physically and mentally fit enough for the Thai military).  And 2 LBs (my friend & 1 other) in dresses and makeup off to the side sitting lady-like on chairs, waiting for their "sorry we don't need you" exclusions that all LBs receive.

Hardly a statistically significant sample size, however that would be about 4% of this group.

[sharkdog]

A few years back I was in Udon Thani for a few days, and my driver took me to his daughter's High School where they were having a Sport Day.

It was a Saturday and the entire High School was divided up into 7 teams based on what day of the week they were born (Red team if born on a Sunday, Yellow team Monday, etc).  Each team then divided up with a male and female volleyball squad, basketball squad, football squad, etc., and also its' own cheerleading squad.

The most lively and entertaining cheerleading squad had a band and a flamboyant LB Head Cheerleader.  The LB was dressed in a Uni-Girl outfit with very short skirt, heels and a tight blouse, jumping around in front of the bleachers and leading the cheers.

There was also a group of 5 LBs who weren't attached to any team, but instead had formed their own independent dance squad.  In between games they would go out on the court with their boom box blasting music and perform dance routines.  They had obviously been practicing for some time and had created their own outfits.

All in all everyone was having a great time and seemed to be having a lot of fun.  All I could think of was 'Amazing Thailand' - never in a million years could this scene take place back in my hometown school.

Anyway... 6 obvious ladyboys out of a group of about 300 - 400 total High School students.  And if 50% of the students were male, that works out to between 3 and 4%.  AND that only includes the LBs who had already come 'Out' as High School teenagers.

[rxpharm]

sharkdog, unless you're willing to count all the lbs in Thailand, your local observations are just that, local. You cannot generalize them over the whole country. If you want to imagine that 5% of men in LOS will become ladyboys, so the total of lbs would be 1.6 million (which I still don't think is right), then feel free to imagine.

 

Even the estimate of 100,000, which you think is low - how long would it take you to meet 100,000 lbs?

[Moo Yung]

If I were to guess I'd say ladyboys (with breast implants) would make up around 1% of the adult population of Thailand. If you were to add those not operated on who take hormones or simply consider themselves to be a ladyboy, maybe another 1.5% to 2%.

 

If you just focus on those resident in Pattaya City I wouldn't be surprised if you found as much as 15% who are ladyboys, and working within Nana Plaza you'd likely find around 25% to 30% ladyboys.

[dixon cox]

If I type out every number with two decimal places between 0 and 100 I know I will eventually get the right percentage, or certainly hopefully close enough to satisfy the OP's curiosity.

 

0.01%

0.02%

0.03%

0.04%

0.05%

0.06%

0.07%

0.08%

0.09%

0.10%

0.11%

.. I'm bored with this now, can someone else take over.

 

I wonder how many ants there are in the world. I sat and watched some in my room once in Pattaya and followed them to see where they went. Through my calculations I reckon there are 63,021,447,204,291,092,669,152,231,022 ants in the world, but that was based upon sightings in one room on one day with biscuit crumbs on the floor so it may not be totally accurate.

[fredos99]

I think the actual % that are gay/ladyboys is uninteresting. (a 30% ballbark number is obviously absurd..)

What I do find interesting is how big portion of the gay guys that decide they want to live openly as ladyboys/transexuals in Thailand compared to most other countries. (I dont have any numbers but the ratio is obviously massive, like 10x at least to most western countries)

 

There could be several reasons for this like

1. social acceptance which makes it easier for gays that want to live as transexuals to chose to do so becasue the social sacrifice/risk is not as high as living as gay.

2. cultural. since there are more people living as ladyboys it is easier to get into it and make friends with similar views and actually think of it as a realistic option

3. it is probably more profitable to live as ladyboy if you want to work in sex industry

4. there are actually a higher % of gays in Thailand (than in other countries) that want to to live as ladyboys

5. ???

 

What do you think is the main reason such a high portion (compared to the rest of the world) of the gay guys in Thailand chose to live openly as ladyboys. Are there actually more gays that want to live as ladyboys, or are there alot of gays in the west that actually would like to live as transexuals? Or maybe its the opposite that there are many gays in Thailand that chose to live as ladyboys because it offers better opportunities and it is easy to get into since there are so many of them, but they feel more like sissy gay males?

Maybe there is little difference between a sissy gay in the west and a ladyboy in Thailand?

 

Relevant to the topic is that I do not think that the % of the population that is gay varies a lot through out the world. Only the % that admits it to themslefs/their surrounding. Very hard figure to measure accurately due to the high blind/hidden numbers.