35 replies to this topic

[petesie]

To be honest Mac...my comments to the GF were somewhat restrained and indeed equal from her comments on a previous trip to LoS.

I have my reasons...

[dazedandconfused]

For the life of me, I can’t figure out what the reason for this crap is. I know that some Aussies got stuck in Phuket because their budget airline went belly-up while they were on vacation. They were stranded, so I could understand a country wanting to be assured that didn’t happen. But this was a RETURN flight. No one was being stranded. I could go on and on in a rant about this, but it is so confusing and frustrating, it makes my head ache.

Hi Macman . Frustrating huh? Broadly it's down to immigration formalities.... Tourists are given a 21 day visa on arrival (or can obtain a longer visa if arranged in advance). The reason for the return ticket is that you have to be able to show that you do not intend to overstay and that you can prove that you plan to exit the PI at some point and the authorities are hoping not to be saddled with you, and the attendant costs, if for any reason it all goes a bit wrong on your visit. Needless to say you can change all of these flight plans and indeed extend your visa once you are in country. Not sure what your visa status is but when you have time then move it over to a more permanent residency based type (retirement?) visa and problems are solved. To be fair when my GG partner has visited the UK and the US she has had to show return tickets to the PI prior to being given her entry clearance...

[Macman]

BigTel wrote:

She is still the lovely person She was when I first met Her in Nov 2006.

Thanks for that post, BigTel. I'm really happy to hear that.

Petesie said:

my comments to the GF were somewhat restrained and indeed equal from her comments on a previous trip to LoS.

I have my reasons...

I hear ya, Petesie. I guess it's a sensitive subject. I must admit that I sometimes sit down with Angel when I'm really frustrated or depressed with the country and vent. I usually start off with, "Hon, you know I don't want to keep knocking your country, but ..." She understands, and often agrees with me, although she really has no frame of reference, having only lived here.

Dazedandconfuzed wrote:

The reason for the return ticket is that you have to be able to show that you do not intend to overstay and that you can prove that you plan to exit the PI at some point and the authorities are hoping not to be saddled with you, and the attendant costs, if for any reason it all goes a bit wrong on your visit.

I understand that, Dazed, but I didn't have to show a return ticket when Angel and I came back from Hong Kong in February, and not when I came here last June from the U.S. In neither instance did I even have a return ticket, and I had no problem. The airline lady made it clear to me that the rule only applied to budget airlines, which is what made no sense to me.

Dazed also said:

To be fair when my GG partner has visited the UK and the US she has had to show return tickets to the PI prior to being given her entry clearance...

I'm not trying to be mean here (after all, this is where I have chosen to live), but let's face it, people aren't exactly flocking here to try and sneak in and stay illegally as they do to Great Britain and the U.S. BTW, my status is as a "Tourist", which means that I have to keep renewing my visa every 2 months. You're right, and I plan on applying for a Special Retiree's Resident Visa when I get back from The States in June. I need to get some paperwork from home before I can do it. That will make life much easier.

[Macman]

Oh, I forgot to mention something in the report. At the Siam Country Club, there was a guy that I assume worked security for the LPGA. I don't think he was involved with the Country Club itself. He was a Caucasian, and even though I only heard him bark a brief few commands, I'm pretty sure he was American. He was the spitting image of Jimbo. I mean that he could have been his twin. Obviously, if he's a Yank, he's not, but I'm really sorry that I didn't snap a picture of him. Angel always has some kind of picture-taking device handy, and is like a quick-draw artist with it. She takes pictures of anything and everything. I'm still a "Damn it! Why-didn't-I-take-a-picture-of-that" kind of person.

[dazedandconfused]

Hi Petesie and Macman

Me again! Maybe, as a neutral, I can fly the PI flag a bit for your other halves in their absentia?

Yes, the Philippines has been long overtaken economically by other SE Asian neighbours and development of infrastructure, tourism, politics etc has been much faster elsewhere. The reasons are long, historically complicated and far too long to go into detail here. But some general reflections and perspective from an outsiders point of view might be useful;

WW2 destroyed Manila. It was the most bombed / trashed City in the war bar Warsaw. recovering from that with relatively little external investment has been a huge millstone.

There are over 7,100 farflung islands and exerting political, democratic and economic control over all of these from the capital is enormously difficult (seems to be much easier to do where the country is more or less a single land mass). As a consequence too may of the islands have become the personal fiefdoms of families who run them as their own goldmines. There is a broad rule of thumb that suggests the further you are from Manila (Luzon island) the less money there is around. Thats why so many of the girls working in the GG bars in Manila and AC are effectively economic migrants and seem to come from rural Samar, Leyte etc.

One of the (several!) major issues is the on-going population growth and here the Church - mainly Catholic but there are plenty of other culprits - hold ridiculous sway at the top end of the establishment. The current debate here about the legalisation of teaching kids about reproductive health, contraception and information about abortion is crazy in this day and age. As a result there is unfettered pop growth which puts more presssure on the economy and natural resources.

Ironically although the reactionary Churches hold way too much influence at Govt level (though the current administration, at last, seem set on challenging this) and millions of folks attend Church regularly there is a joyfulness and happy go lucky spirit about the people that means many of the pulpit teachings are ignored or accomodated. Hence this the friendliest and least racist / homophobic country I have ever visited.

Tourism is definitely increasing from both Asia and Europe. From Europe it's traditionally been hampered by being an additional 4 - 5 hours flight from LOS which has been the magnet for donkeys years. Most folks see that as too long to travel and stop when they get to BKK. And I'll give Thailand (and neighbours) it's due, it fast developed a clear and coherent tourism policy that has seen enormous growth. Something that until recently has not happend in the PI for a variety of reasons.

But despite all the apparent cronyism, corruption, mess, poor infrastructure etc etc it's definitely improving (you should have been here 10 years ago!) and the signs are visible:

1. More and more hotels and resorts being built in Manila and out in the islands. In Manila most of the new ones are 4 - 5 stars and the hotels here already are always running near full, hence the high prices versus LOS

2. The economy is relatively roubust and has, so far, escaped much of the Global recession. The amount of new residential development, especially in parts of Manila is unbelievable, there are huge Condo buildings going up everywhere and vast areas of land outside Manila are also being developed for housing.

3. There is a recognition that more needs to be done to attract external investment so there are changes being introduced to make entry and living here for foreigners easier. There are brand new hospitals being built, new schools etc etc.

4. The current Government was elected on the promise that they would take on the old school corrupt politicians and heads of Govt owned institutions. This is slowly happening.

5. The fastest growing part of the economy is the astonishing rise of BPO's (call-centres). These are everywhere and not just in Manila. They are being located in Baguio, Cebu, Dumaguete, Davao etc etc. An educated, English speaking population is great for the global blue chip owners of the call centres and they are investing heavily in the PI - and they are no mugs when it comes to spending money

6. The PI domestic and international airlines have increased their regional and international coverage and are rapidly building new fleets to cope with massive new customer demand. Much of it stemming from a new middle class that has emerged over the past few years.

7. The central islands of the Visayas ie Cebu, Boracay, Negros, Bohol and at a stretch Siquijor and Mindoro as well as Palawan attract ever increasing amounts of tourism. They have great beaches, diving, scenery, natural wonders, food, sometimes nightlife and so on. They are the model for which other islands are increasingly turning to develop their own tourism projects.

So...its all looking up (until we have the next natural disaster, human rights issue / atrocity etc etc at which point its back to base again).

Big issue though of course is the trickle down effect and how fast this money and newly found concern about the welfare and rights of the citizen reaches the islands of Leyte, Romblon, Mindanao etc. Time will tell but right now it feels a lot more positive living here than it did even five years ago. There are plenty of people with their head and hearts in the right place and arguably more and more of them are getting elected to make a difference.

Anyway, enough of the pompous musings and apologies for dropping this in on your very interesting and amusing thread Petesie.

D&C

[dazedandconfused]

Dazedandconfuzed wrote:

The reason for the return ticket is that you have to be able to show that you do not intend to overstay and that you can prove that you plan to exit the PI at some point and the authorities are hoping not to be saddled with you, and the attendant costs, if for any reason it all goes a bit wrong on your visit.

I understand that, Dazed, but I didn't have to show a return ticket when Angel and I came back from Hong Kong in February, and not when I came here last June from the U.S. In neither instance did I even have a return ticket, and I had no problem. The airline lady made it clear to me that the rule only applied to budget airlines, which is what made no sense to me.

Hi again Macman. She was feeding you duff info! All of the airlines are responsible for ensuring that everyone traveling as a tourist has a return ticket to travel to and from the PI, them's the rules. If the immigration authorities bounce them back on arrival for not having a ticket it is the Airlines responsibility to take them back from whence they came - at their own expense. It might be that the budget airlines are a bit more vigilant about this cos they can't afford for this to happen too often but same rules apply to all. Sometimes they check and sometimes they don't. I have only ever been asked once over the years but it does happen. I had US friends coming in on a Continental Airlines flight from Guam last year and they actually had their onward paper tickets physically here in Manila. It took them over an hour, with numerous phone calls, to finally convince CO check-in desk staff to allow them to fly to Manila.

Know what you mean though - most folks are not trying to get in or stay illegally

Hell, I got lost in TR world- this is of course your trip report Macman not Petesie's! Sorry, won't interrup anymore....

[petesie]

You can apologise all ye like mate...it's not my Trip Report!

Some excellent background information there D&C...

[pacman]

Thanks for the thorough analysis D&C, that's the best insight I have ever read about the Philippines economy.

I was about to say you need a new forum name, that was neither dazed nor confused. Then I saw you misappropriated Mac's report to Petesie... so... carry on as you are...

[pacman]

I know that no one is forcing them into that life...

If only that was true. Some families are so desperate for their children to start earning, they bundle them off years before they are legally old enough to work in an illegal business.

The poor kids have to exist outside the bar scene with fake IDs & a pimp. It's better than it was but I am told it is still happening.

[Macman]

Dazed, that was a really interesting and obviously well-thought-out post concerning PI. I certainly hope you're right about the progress that's being made. BTW, In have a tendency to equate poverty with unhappiness, and I know that's not a one-to-one correlation. I get depressed when I see how poor some people are, but sometimes forget to notice how happy they seem to be when with family and friends. This doesn't belong in a TR (it should probably be in the Expat thread), but I want to tell a little anecdote about Angel. One time we were in Cebu for an overnight stay. We had just come back from Hong Kong, and would take the morning SuperCat to Leyte. Angel has a lot of friends working there. They are trained nurses, but have taken jobs in the call centers to which you referred because the pay is so much better. She went out that evening with them. When she came back, I noticed that she was a little down. I asked her what was wrong, and she started crying. She said, "I miss the simple me." It turns out that her friends wanted to eat at a really run-down storefront eatery, and Angel balked because it looked dirty to her. She then told me that she realized that she wouldn't have hesitated for a moment before we began living together. She was worried that she was becoming a snob. So here I was, thinking what a great guy I was to "save" her from relative poverty, and free her from her "unhappiness" as an under-privileged young lady, when she can actually be happy under any circumstances. It was a great lesson for me. She's a great person with so many friends it's astounding. Everyone should be so lucky.

Pacman wrote:

The poor kids have to exist outside the bar scene with fake IDs & a pimp. It's better than it was but I am told it is still happening.

I know you're probably right, Pac. I know one thing: this has all been a great eye=opening experience for me. We're never too young to learn, I guess, and never too old to gain appreciation for what we have.

[Macman]

Thanks, PT. I've been without the internet for the last 5 days (Welcome to The Philippines), so I'm just catching up.